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Kyle banned me from the Hardforum!
#71
(08-29-2018, 05:09 PM)gstanford Wrote:
SickBeast Wrote:The RTX 2070 is the only Turing card that looks to be priced somewhat reasonably to me. $399-449 would have been a killer price IMO. But I understand nVidia needs to make money.
Don't concern yourself over nvidia's ability to make money.  They have made obscene amounts of money out of gamers with Pascal (never mind the money from professional markets).

So what? What is your point? Nvidia maximizes their profit as all corporations do. They will charge as much as the market will bear - just like Intel/AMD/Apple/etc. Why single them out? If you don't need/want to upgrade, then don't. Or buy AMD or Intel CPU-graphics - or buy a console for your gaming. You do have plenty of choices for your hobby that are not dependent on Nvidia graphics.


Quote:nvidia detailed pricing at the event you attended. How can you not know? They didn't exactly keep it a secret.
Again, I don't know if the $1200 GTX 2080 Ti is the replacement for the $1200 Titan Xp or for the $700 GTX 1080 Ti. There is a big difference (to me), depending ...
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#72
Actually, "normal" gamers do purchase Titan - mostly for bragging rights plus its much better resale value. I simply don't know if GTX Titan lineup has been discontinued or not. We already have a Titan V at $3,000 dollars as Nvidia's top hybrid card (gaming/development) - will there be another RTX Titan at all, or is the new Ti *that* card, replacing the Titan Xp?

I can guess .. but I don't know for sure Nvidia's intentions any more than you think you know.

Secondly, prices on everything including food prices are going up and up and up. Why should big expensive low-yielding dies be any different?
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#73
(08-29-2018, 05:12 PM)apoppin Wrote:
(08-29-2018, 05:09 PM)gstanford Wrote:
SickBeast Wrote:The RTX 2070 is the only Turing card that looks to be priced somewhat reasonably to me. $399-449 would have been a killer price IMO. But I understand nVidia needs to make money.
Don't concern yourself over nvidia's ability to make money.  They have made obscene amounts of money out of gamers with Pascal (never mind the money from professional markets).

So what?  What is your point?  Nvidia maximizes their profit as all corporations do.  They will charge as much as the market will bear - just like Intel/AMD/Apple/etc.  Why single them out?  If you don't need/want to upgrade, then don't.  Or buy AMD or Intel CPU-graphics - or buy a console for your gaming.  You do have plenty of choices for your hobby that are not dependent on Nvidia graphics.  


Quote:nvidia detailed pricing at the event you attended. How can you not know? They didn't exactly keep it a secret.
Again, I don't know if the $1200 GTX 2080 Ti is the replacement for the $1200 Titan Xp or for the $700 GTX 1080 Ti.  There is a big difference (to me), depending ...
True. You do have a point. The thing is, nVidia hasn't really left any room in their naming conventions for a slightly cut down or crippled version of the Ti card. But it would make sense for them to release a full die Turing Titan card for even more money. We'll see. I agree, if the Ti card is indeed a Titan then that will be a big win. And if a cheaper crippled version comes out soon along with price cuts for the other cards, that will be great. If these cards don't sell well nVidia might have no other choice. A lot of gamers don't like what they have seen so far. The general sentiment I have seen about Geforce Turing has been pretty negative. A lot of people are really angry about the pricing. I'm not angry, personally. Just disappointed. And like you said I'm in a good position with my current hardware whereby I can easily skip this generation if I want.
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#74
(08-29-2018, 05:22 PM)SickBeast Wrote: True.  You do have a point.  The thing is, nVidia hasn't really left any room in their naming conventions for a slightly cut down or crippled version of the Ti card.  But it would make sense for them to release a full tie Turing Titan card for even more money.  We'll see.  I agree, if the Ti card is indeed a Titan then that will be a big win.  And if a cheaper crippled version comes out soon along with price cuts for the other cards, that will be great.  If these cards don't sell well nVidia might have no other choice.  A lot of gamers don't like what they have seen so far.  The general sentiment I have seen about Geforce Turing has been pretty negative.  A lot of people are really angry about the pricing.  I'm not angry, personally.  Just disappointed.  And like you said I'm in a good position with my current hardware whereby I can easily skip this generation if I want.

I am surprised by the pricing also.  I am making no secret of that and I am unsure what is replacing what exactly.  BUT, ultimately the performance metric is going to figure into it.  If the new card absolutely wallops the current Titan Xp in regular games (like matching Titan Xp SLI), then there will be a lot less disappointed gamers.  And if it can add great new features at the same time, it will be a success.  If not, it will not do as well, and Nvidia will learn from it.

Personally, I find the Editors Day presentations to be way too short.  I just wish that it was literally 2 times longer - so we could digest the information over a couple of days and then come up with better questions.  We get to talk to the core of Nvidia - and it is so rare and that is a privilege for me that I value.  And the only other way we communicate with them is by our reviews (so I have to give it a lot of thought - yes I *owe* them that consideration - along with every other HW manufacturer that I accept review samples from).

And you can probably guess that I was the only editor there really interested in VR
Beee


(08-29-2018, 05:29 PM)gstanford Wrote: Skipping the generation is precisely what I plan to do.  My GTX 1080 will perform well enough until 7nm arrives and I have my consoles also.  Who knows, my old OS might even do some DX12 class gaming if someone ports Valves linux libraries to win 7 (its all open source software). . . .

A wise decision for you.  It totally makes sense, and you have alternate plans.  But please don't piss all over the other peoples' parade who might want these card and are excited for RT and who won't mind spending their money if they feel it is justified.

And good luck with your goals.  I seriously hope it works out with Steam/Linux.  I despise MS for what they have done to Win 10 and the way they screw PC gamers in favor of their effing xbox platform.
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#75
(08-29-2018, 05:29 PM)gstanford Wrote: Skipping the generation is precisely what I plan to do.  My GTX 1080 will perform well enough until 7nm arrives and I have my consoles also.  Who knows, my old OS might even do some DX12 class gaming if someone ports Valves linux libraries to win 7 (its all open source software).

The pricing situation should resolve itself pretty abruptly when intel enters the discrete GPU market and sinks their boot up nvidia's greedy fat arse.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Intel. Major manufacturing problems currently along with all their security vulnerabilities. I would think that 99% of their resources are going into redesigning their CPUs from the ground up at the moment. And I would be shocked to see them compete with nVidia on any level in 2020 or whenever they are saying. At best they will design a very nice iGPU for their CPUs that can eat into nVidia's low end offerings. But AMD already makes those and can probably do better.
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#76
(08-29-2018, 05:38 PM)gstanford Wrote: I think intel is big enough to juggle more than one ball at once.

As to your first comment about Intel lowering Nvidia's pricing ... Intel would be more expensive for their midrange cards but they would sing and dance on how compatible it is with their i7-9700K - yep, the security will still be broken and their graphics drivers will still suck donkey balls.
JC-LOL


No, Intel is too small-minded to create a competitive GPU without renting the IP. They are a "CPU only" company for the foreseeable future. If Intel tried to integrate RTG, for example, they would suffer the same fate as AMD - who finally pushed RTG into another distant division that gets second rate attention.

Intel may be big enough, but they are not smart enough nor do they have any vision

Laugh1
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#77
(08-29-2018, 05:38 PM)gstanford Wrote: I think intel is big enough to juggle more than one ball at once.

nvidia's lowend offerings are precisely what nvidia doesn't want others eating into.  1050 and 1060 are the meat and potatoes of their sales.  Everything above is just a nice gravy on top.

Well, if that prompts nVidia to lower prices on their cards, I say good. However competition at the low end of the market doesn't mean that nVidia will suddenly cut prices on their higher end offerings. They will still have no competition in that realm.

Our best hope in the near term is 7nm Vega. But that is a real moon shot considering the turkey that Vega is currently. And I think pigs would fly before you ever bought their hardware. Crazy_pilot
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#78
I love a good conspiracy theory.

But yours needs some significant work and it doesn't fly - at all.

First of all, Volta was created for RT (the Tensor cores are more than for Deep Learning and for AI). Volta has been out awhile and in the hands of Devs for many months. Nvidia has been building up to photorealism/RT over the past few GTCs and SIGGRAPHs. So it kinda makes sense to me that Nvidia would have planned for RT in gaming at the same time.

There is no "mad panic" but rather a natural progression toward RT and photorealism since CUDA was introduced over a decade ago. AMD and Intel simply don't have the hardware to do what Nvidia is introducing, and Intel is a giant mess regarding their graphics. Intel will fail again to produce a discrete graphics card that is competitive.
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#79
(08-29-2018, 05:52 PM)gstanford Wrote: You don't know how far along intel may be in the graphics department.

Why the sudden interest in RayTracing from nvidia and M$?

Larrabee was to be RayTracing capable and intel is preparing to launch discrete GPU's.  Seems to me nvidia is in a mad panic over RayTracing for some strange reason........

With M$ why would they push RayTracing in their API's and with game developers if it was something only expensive highend nvidia cards could do for the first few years.  Perhaps they are aware of other forthcoming GPU architectures that may also RayTrace and will probably sell extremely well with the public.......
I think waiting for 7nm Geforce is a better strategy than waiting for 10nm Intel that may never transpire. They may never be able to figure out the 10nm node. That will be a disaster for them. All bets are off when it comes to Intel at this point IMO. They are in real serious trouble. They might wind up in AMD's current position in relatively short order, or worse.

As for your theory about ray tracing, while possible, I highly doubt it. I don't think nVidia views Intel as a threat. Not yet anyway. Do you really think Intel can nail a high end GPU launch that's competitive with the best GPUs nVidia has to offer? I don't. Not on their first try. The absolute best we can hope for is a decent midrange card with poor drivers. I really think a very good iGPU is the best we will see. And maybe AMD will sue them once Raja gives Intel all of AMD's secrets. Raja may know things but he does not own AMD's intellectual property.
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#80
Yeah, I was just banned twice in the past week due to a stupid mod abusing their power over there.  All I did was posting some previous history on a user that always causes issues in the forsale forum with other users on stuff he buys or sells.  A mod came in and asked for everyone to stay on topic.  Well, I never said another word after that, and next thing I know the next day, I got banned by this other mod for several days.  So, today it was lifted, I PM'd that mod, and asked him what the deal was since I never posted again after the mod asked everyone to stop, and why I got banned.  He posted this in the screenshot below.  

I am like, wow, that is pure abuse of their powers.  We are supposed to be able to ask the mods and they are supposed to be helpful, but obviously not.  I've been over there for 15 years, and now this happens. :(

[Image: Capture.png]

how does aluminum form
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